Enjoy Karen’s first podcast interview by Darin Hayes, a seasoned professional who guides the author to sharing fresh details about her well researched and lovingly written book, The Dutchman and Portland’s Finest Rose.

Hayes understands both football as a game and a team as a family, encouraging more of the backstory on what not only drove Van Brocklin on the field, but the love he and his wife shared to build their life in post-war America.

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